Hello @Futurium, thank you for reaching out to us. It pains me a bit to say that, because you made so nicely sure that we have all resources, but your topic is out of scope of support, specifically the points: We provide code examples but we do not provide full solutions or design applications. We cannot debug your code for you and instead provide answers to specific problems. Sometimes we cut people some slack here but in your case this is just too much work. Some High-level Advice The Take system of Cinema 4D is one of its most liked features. What comes to users sometimes as a surprise, is the technical complexity of the Take System/API; one could also say that it has a bit the reputation of being overly difficult to deal with. While the API is manageable when you get used to it, I would really avoid trying to write a custom serialization and deserialization routine for take data, due to all that complexity. It is certainly possible to do, but at least I would be very hesitant to do that due to all that complexity wich must be met. In general, you can serialize and deserialize scene elements (nodes) with C4DAtom.Write/Read. Since takes are also of type C4DAtom, you could in theory also serialize/deserialize them like that. I added there the 'in theory' because we generally discourage third parties from using such low-level IO, as you can relatively easily brick your data like this by missing important internal dependencies and/or crash Cinema 4D like that. For takes this could mean that internal data is not copied/serialized properly or that one of the many (Base)links used in takes fails to reattach upon being loaded in another scene. I personally would try to use the Take Asset Presets to do what you want. Saving a preset is easy, just select it, and then call the command for it. Loading the take preset programmatically might be a bit trickier. Take assets were added after I wrote for S26 the Asset API documentation, and I never used them myself. I am not sure if you can load a take asset just with maxon.AssetManagerInterface.LoadAssets or if you have to get your hands dirty yourself with a more manual approach. Okay scratch that, I just tried out Take Assets and they probably do not do what you want to do (we might ourself have deemed this a too complex task to fully reattach takes in a new scene). In the end, doing it manually with JSON might indeed be the only option for what you want to do, but we cannot do that for you or debug your code for you. Cheers, Ferdinand

Hello everyone, we have moved this topic to a mail discussion, when there are outcomes relevant for other developers, I will post them here. Cheers, Ferdinand

Hi Tomasz, Thanks for reaching out to us. First I'd like to note that according to our Support Procedures we cannot provide you with complete solutions: We provide code examples but we do not provide full solutions or design applications. We cannot debug your code for you and instead provide answers to specific problems. Regarding your question. In short, what you're trying to do here is not easily achievable (if possible at all). Although, you can manipulate Redshift AOVs as discussed in get the names of redshift multi passes AOV names from the render settings, I'm afraid there's no such functionality exposed for interacting the baking tool itself. This effectively means that you can simulate pressing the "Bake" button in the bakeset attributes using C4D API, but you cannot skip manual interaction in the bake tool. I'd suggest you double checking this on redshift forum as it would be the place with the most concentrated knowledge on this topic. Regarding your related questions. First, please make sure you're dedicating your threads to a singular question or topic as explained in How to ask questions: Singular Question: The initial posting of a support topic must contain a singular question. Do not ask ten things at once, that makes it extremely hard to answer topics. Break up your questions into multiple topics. Asking follow-up questions is allowed but they must be bound to the initial subject. Manipulating data of the baked AOV textures. Trying to adapt them to look like on final render image is an ill-posed problem, as each AOV is some sort of "layer" of the information the renderer uses to create final rendering. I'd suggest you first check the documentation on the AOVs: Intro to AOVs and Redshift: Baking. If you still have end-user questions, you're very welcome to ask them on our Support Center. To the best of my knowledge using AOVs from the render settings is supposed to work with the Bake tool as long as you use AOV Manager to set them up. The effect of "green normals" that you observe is likely the unexpected coordinate system for your normal data. Namely, Redshift is always working with objects in worldspace, hence the normal data is also represented the same way. The blueish normal maps are typically those that are expressed in tangent space. Unfortunately there's no built-in AOV that does this for you. To achieve this, you could potentially leverage the "Store Color To AOV" node for that, although this would require adjusting your node material setup, e.g. like below: [image: 1738227286463-8f2f671d-15d9-437f-b6f3-e77f72169666-image.png] Cheers, Ilia

@m_adam Thanks,it works well [image: 1737723959721-2b524b98-f131-4d69-bcf0-4dec858821ab-image.png] this is code: import c4d import random from c4d import gui # Welcome to the world of Python NAME = 0 LINKTO = 1 LINK = 2 TYPE = 3 class TreeView_Item(object): def __init__(self,): self.type = 'psr' self.selected = False self.obj_name = str(random.randint(1,100)) self.linkto_name = "" @property def IsSelected(self): return self.selected def Select(self): self.selected = True def Deselect(self): self.selected = False def __repr__(self): return str(self) def __str__(self): return self.obj_name class TreeView(c4d.gui.TreeViewFunctions): def __init__(self,items_list=None): self.items_list = items_list if items_list else [] def GetLineHeight(self,root, userdata, obj, col, area): return area.DrawGetFontHeight() def IsResizeColAllowed(self, root, userdata, lColID): return True def IsTristate(self, root, userdata): return False def GetColumnWidth(self, root, userdata, obj, col, area): """Measures the width of cells. Although this function is called #GetColumnWidth and has a #col, it is not only executed by column but by cell. So, when there is a column with items requiring the width 5, 10, and 15, then there is no need for evaluating all items. Each item can return its ideal width and Cinema 4D will then pick the largest value. Args: root (any): The root node of the tree view. userdata (any): The user data of the tree view. obj (any): The item for the current cell. col (int): The index of the column #obj is contained in. area (GeUserArea): An already initialized GeUserArea to measure the width of strings. Returns: TYPE: Description """ # The default width of a column is 80 units. width = 80 # Replace the width with the text width. area is a prepopulated # user area which has already setup all the font stuff, we can # measure right away. if col == NAME: return area.DrawGetTextWidth(obj.obj_name) + 5 if col == LINKTO: return area.DrawGetTextWidth("-->") + 5 if col == LINK: return area.DrawGetTextWidth(obj.linkto_name) + 5 if col == TYPE: return area.DrawGetTextWidth(obj.type) + 5 return width def GetFirst(self, root, userdata): """ Return the first element in the hierarchy, or None if there is no element. """ rValue = None if not len(self.items_list) else self.items_list[0] return rValue def GetNext(self, root, userdata, obj): """ Returns the next Object to display after arg:'obj' """ rValue = None currentObjIndex = self.items_list.index(obj) nextIndex = currentObjIndex + 1 if nextIndex < len(self.items_list): rValue = self.items_list[nextIndex] return rValue def GetPred(self, root, userdata, obj): """ Returns the previous Object to display before arg:'obj' """ rValue = None currentObjIndex = self.items_list.index(obj) predIndex = currentObjIndex - 1 if 0 <= predIndex < len(self.items_list): rValue = self.items_list[predIndex] return rValue def GetId(self, root, userdata, obj): """ Return a unique ID for the element in the TreeView. """ return hash(obj) def Select(self, root, userdata, obj, mode): print(obj.obj_name) if mode == c4d.SELECTION_NEW: for item in self.items_list: item.Deselect() obj.Select() elif mode == c4d.SELECTION_ADD: obj.Select() elif mode == c4d.SELECTION_SUB: obj.Deselect() def IsSelected(self, root, userdata, obj): return obj.IsSelected def DeletePressed(self, root, userdata): "Called when a delete event is received." for item in reversed(self.items_list): if item.IsSelected: self.items_list.remove(item) def GetName(self, root, userdata, obj): """ Returns the name to display for arg:'obj', only called for column of type LV_TREE """ return str(obj) # Or obj.texturePath def DrawCell(self, root, userdata, obj, col, drawinfo, bgColor): """ Draw into a Cell, only called for column of type LV_USER """ if col == NAME: text = obj.obj_name elif col == LINKTO: text = '-->' elif col == LINK: text = obj.linkto_name elif col == TYPE: text = obj.type else: text = '' canvas = drawinfo["frame"] xpos = drawinfo["xpos"] ypos = drawinfo["ypos"] txtColorDict = canvas.GetColorRGB(c4d.COLOR_TEXT_SELECTED) if obj.IsSelected else canvas.GetColorRGB( c4d.COLOR_TEXT) txtColorVector = c4d.Vector(txtColorDict["r"] / 255.0, txtColorDict["g"] / 255.0, txtColorDict["b"] / 255.0) canvas.DrawSetTextCol(txtColorVector, bgColor) canvas.DrawText(text, xpos, ypos) def DoubleClick(self, root, userdata, obj, col, mouseinfo): return True class test_dialog(gui.GeDialog): def __init__(self): self._treegui = None self.treeview = TreeView() def CreateLayout(self): # Other than edit fields, buttons do not have a builtin bubble help. customgui = c4d.BaseContainer() customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_BORDER, c4d.BORDER_THIN_IN) customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_HAS_HEADER, True) # True if the tree view may have a header line. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_HIDE_LINES, False) # True if no lines should be drawn. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_MOVE_COLUMN, False) # True if the user can move the columns. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_RESIZE_HEADER, True) # True if the column width can be changed by the user. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_FIXED_LAYOUT, True) # True if all lines have the same height. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_ALTERNATE_BG, True) # Alternate background per line. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_CURSORKEYS, True) # True if cursor keys should be processed. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_NOENTERRENAME, True) # Suppresses the rename popup when the user presses enter. customgui.SetBool(c4d.TREEVIEW_NO_MULTISELECT, False) self._treegui = self.AddCustomGui(1000, c4d.CUSTOMGUI_TREEVIEW, "", c4d.BFH_SCALEFIT | c4d.BFV_SCALEFIT, 300, 300, customgui) if not self._treegui: print("[ERROR]: Could not create TreeView") return False self.AddButton(1001, c4d.BFH_CENTER, name="Add") return True def InitValues(self) -> bool: layout = c4d.BaseContainer() layout.SetInt32(NAME, c4d.LV_USER) layout.SetInt32(LINKTO, c4d.LV_USER) layout.SetInt32(LINK, c4d.LV_USER) layout.SetInt32(TYPE, c4d.LV_USER) self.layout = layout self._treegui.SetLayout(4, layout) # Set the header titles. self._treegui.SetHeaderText(NAME, "Name") self._treegui.SetHeaderText(LINKTO, "") self._treegui.SetHeaderText(LINK, "Link") self._treegui.SetHeaderText(TYPE, "Type") # Set TreeViewFunctions instance used by our CUSTOMGUI_TREEVIEW self._treegui.SetRoot(self._treegui, self.treeview, None) self._treegui.Refresh() return True def Command(self, id, msg): if id == 1001: item = TreeView_Item() self.treeview.items_list.append(item) self._treegui.Refresh() return True return True # Execute main() if __name__=='__main__': dlg = test_dialog() dlg.Open(c4d.DLG_TYPE_ASYNC,0 -1,-1,400,400)

Hi Ferdinand, Thank you for your answer. No, I'm no developer, and yes, I work for a business looking to automate still image production in the rendering pipeline - trying to reduce human error as much as possible, and speed up our process/volume. It's all about money in the end sadly. I was curious to know if something was possible to place an object automatically on the "shooting table" flat in a way that the place tool allows - we have automated every other step of our process and this is the only one left that is a challenge. This is a much bigger problem than I thought it was. Thank you again for understanding I'm likely not a developer - it's frustrating when developpers always think everyone is like them, and it should evident our questions are ridiculous. Markeee.

Good to hear!

Hello @uogygiuol, Thank you for the added details. Yes, reducing the complexity of questions is the right thing to do, thank you for doing tit. Essays are counterproductive, as we then tend to overlook things (q.e.d., I overlooked the fact that you wanted to mangle the scene file in this thread). In general, trying to mangle a file beforehand is not a good route, as you always risk invalidating the file. For your very specific scenario - very simple scene graph, just geometry, no materials, animations or other dependencies - it could make sense. I briefly talked with the owner of our GLTF-importer, and we do not do any sanity checking, e.g., comparing nodes with meshes. So, you could just 'clean up' the scene graph ("nodes") of the file, and Cinema's GLTF importer will then just ignore extra data in fields such as "meshes". How fruitful this will be, you will have to find out yourself. I already had the hunch that your are here surfing on the edge of what is sensbible, and GLTF JSON files which translate to gigabytes of memory are certainly an edge case, due to the fact that text-based file formats are usually a bad choice for such heavy data. Using Python to Read JSON My guesstimate would be that when you throw a GLTF JSON file at Python's JSON parser - which takes five minutes to load in Cinema 4D - to mangle it, you end up with a net-loss or tie, because you loose most or more than the won time in that Python JSON stage. Python's json module is mostly written in C to make it performant, but that is still a lot of JSON to deserialize, modify, and then serialize. One idea could be to use re, i.e., regular expressions, to find the "nodes" section in that file, just deserialize that from JSON, modify it, serialize back to a JSON string, and write it back in place, and by that sidestep having to deserialize that whole file. The problem with all that is that json.load allows you to pass a file object, allowing you to bypass the Python VM entirely and let the data reside in C until the parsing is done, while re does not allow you to regex a file object directly (AFAIK), you always must read the file object into lines or chunks to then pass these strings to the re module. I.e., you would have to load that whole file into a Python string first. What would come here out on top, I have no clue, but my hunch is that re might loose, as Python's string handling is not the fastest. Alternatives might be 3rd party libs such as isjon (a lazy JSON loader) but I do not know how performant it is. For this section it would make a huge difference if you could predict the position of "nodes" in the file, either exactly as a chunk offset, or in the form of 'I know that it is always very close to the end, so let's regex parse the file in reverse'. Using a Binary File Format But the fact remains that text-format file types, e.g., JSON GLTF, become extemely ineffcient once you pass the ~100 MB barrier. Using something like binary GLTF or another binary format such as FBX will likely speed up your Cinema 4D loading times quite a bit, no extra steps required. And to be clear, text-based file formats are always wildely ineffcient. It is just that below the ~100 MB barrier (adjust for the beefiness of your machine), you can drown that inefficency with pure computing power and have the nice advantage of a human-readble file format. Cheers, Ferdinand

That is perfect, thank you for being through and concise, lifesaver.

Hi @derudo, Welcome to the Maxon developers forum and its community, it is great to have you with us! Getting Started Before creating your next postings, we would recommend making yourself accustomed with our forum and support procedures. You did not do anything wrong, we point all new users to these rules. Forum Overview: Provides a broad overview of the fundamental structure and rules of this forum, such as the purpose of the different sub-forums or the fact that we will ban users who engage in hate speech or harassment. Support Procedures: Provides a more in detail overview of how we provide technical support for APIs here. This topic will tell you how to ask good questions and limits of our technical support. Forum Features: Provides an overview of the technical features of this forum, such as Markdown markup or file uploads. It is strongly recommended to read the first two topics carefully, especially the section Support Procedures: Asking Questions. About your First Question There's no single known "thing" we're aware of that could lead to such behavior. In other words, it can be lots of different "things" that caused the symptoms you're describing. Hence, without any further details everything I'm pointing out here is highly speculative. I also don't think answering the question "What could have happened?" is by any means productive, so let's switch the point of view to "How one could diagnose it?". Since you haven't posted any console output in your question, I assume you haven't checked that. This would actually be the first thing to check. Please refer to our Python Console Manual and searching on the forum. Next, try to figure out if it's only UI that stopped appearing or your plugin isn't registered at all anymore. You can do this by checking (e.g. with some temporary print statements) if you plugin is actually functional. On the screenshot you've posted the structure is kind of strange, but we're not sure if it's just a visualization matter of your software. Namely, the plugin.pyp file is expected to reside in the root of the plugin folder. Essentially, the following hierarchy level is not supposed to be there: [image: 1737450594273-232c47cd-171e-4642-8c12-7661b51e6ce5-image.png] Please refer to the article Plugin Structure Manual: Directory Structure and double check your plugin in this regard. If the points above don't lead to any result, try debugging it step-by-step. Namely, strip out everything except the essentials (like plugin registration) and continue adding things piece-by-piece until it starts failing. By the way, one can easily achieve this by using any version control system (e.g. git), as they typically provide a lossless way to manage your code (i.e. remove and add parts of code, without being worried to lose any of them). This approach could also have prevented your scenario in first place, when something stopped working and there're no clues about the change that has lead to it. If this still doesn't help, you can share your plugin here (or send us via contact form, when confidential information is involved). However, I must warn you that our Support Procedures still fully apply, namely: We cannot debug your code for you and instead provide answers to specific problems. Cheers, Ilia

Hello, Thanks for your complete answer. I think I will not start in thread management, but opted for your last solution which will still go through an external image but in an automated way by a python script. Thanks again.

Hello @myosis, Welcome to the Maxon developers forum and its community, it is great to have you with us! Getting Started Before creating your next postings, we would recommend making yourself accustomed with our forum and support procedures. You did not do anything wrong, we point all new users to these rules. Forum Overview: Provides a broad overview of the fundamental structure and rules of this forum, such as the purpose of the different sub-forums or the fact that we will ban users who engage in hate speech or harassment. Support Procedures: Provides a more in detail overview of how we provide technical support for APIs here. This topic will tell you how to ask good questions and limits of our technical support. Forum Features: Provides an overview of the technical features of this forum, such as Markdown markup or file uploads. It is strongly recommended to read the first two topics carefully, especially the section Support Procedures: Asking Questions. About your First Question All the methods you list simply do not exist (neither in C++ nor in Python), see c4d.utils.Neighbor for the type overview. I therefore must assume that you are using an AI, like, for example, ChatGPT, which hallucinated these methods. Please note that we reserve the right to refuse support when confronted with undisclosed AI gibberish, especially for beginner content. Always state when you used an AI to generate code. Something such as an edge does not exist concretely in our API and many other APIs, i.e., other than for points and polygons, there is no explicit data type for edges which would be stored. Edges are defined implicitly by CPolygon. To filter a selection for edges of a certain length, you would have to convert edge indices to polygon and point indices and then measure the distance between the relevant points. Cheers, Ferdinand Result [image: 1737027755224-074e2ada-a9ce-45b4-800a-acf7e060941a-image-resized.png] Code """Deselects all edges in the edge selection of the active object whose edge length exceeds MAX_EDGE_LENGTH. Must be run as a Script Manager script with an editable polygon object selected. """ import c4d doc: c4d.documents.BaseDocument # The currently active document. op: c4d.BaseObject | None # The primary selected object in `doc`. Can be `None`. MAX_EDGE_LENGTH: float = 25.0 # The maximum length of an edge before to be considered too long. MAX_EDGE_LENGTH_SQUARED: float = MAX_EDGE_LENGTH ** 2 # The square of `MAX_EDGE_LENGTH`. def main() -> None: """Called by Cinema 4D when the script is being executed. """ if not op or not op.IsInstanceOf(c4d.Opolygon): raise ValueError("The selected object is not a polygon object.") # Get the edge selection of the object and turn it into a list of selected edges indices. Also, # get the points and polygons of the object. selection: c4d.BaseSelect = op.GetEdgeS() selectedEdges: list[int] = [i for i in range(op.GetEdgeCount()) if selection.IsSelected(i)] points: list[c4d.Vector] = op.GetAllPoints() polygons: list[c4d.CPolygon] = op.GetAllPolygons() def getPointByIndex(poly: c4d.CPolygon, index: int) -> c4d.Vector: """Returns the point of the polygon at the given index. CPolygon has no index access, so we fix that here. """ if index == 0: return points[poly.a] elif index == 1: return points[poly.b] elif index == 2: return points[poly.c] elif index == 3: return points[poly.d] # Iterate over the edges and find the one's that are longer than MAX_EDGE_LENGTH. An edge index # is defined as: # # "The edges are indexed by 4 * polygon + edge where polygon is the polygon index and edge is # the edge index between 0 and 3." # # So, we must revert that here, then measure the edge length, and collect all too long edges. tooLongEdges: list[int] = [] for edgeIndex in selectedEdges: polygonIndex: int = edgeIndex // 4 edgeInPolygonIndex: int = edgeIndex % 4 poly: c4d.CPolygon = polygons[polygonIndex] pointA: c4d.Vector = getPointByIndex(poly, edgeInPolygonIndex) pointB: c4d.Vector = getPointByIndex(poly, (edgeInPolygonIndex + 1) % 4) # Getting the length of a vector is quite expensive, so we compare the squared lengths. edgeLengthSq: float = (pointA - pointB).GetLengthSquared() if edgeLengthSq > MAX_EDGE_LENGTH_SQUARED: tooLongEdges.append(edgeIndex) # Print the indices of the edges that are too long. print("The following edges are too long:", tooLongEdges) # Deselect all edges in the object's edge selection that are too long. for edgeIndex in tooLongEdges: selection.Deselect(edgeIndex) # Push an update event to Cinema 4D to redraw the object. c4d.EventAdd() if __name__ == '__main__': main()

@ferdinand Thank you for your detailed answer.

Hi @mia-elisenberg, Thanks for reaching out to us! I must note that as per our Support Procedures we cannot debug your code. Hence, in your future postings I kindly ask you to try simplifying your code to a minimal viable example, which highlights your question. Regarding your question, creating keyframes for nodes can be a little trickier comparing to the ordinary objects, but the general data accessing scheme stays the same. @Dunhou has thankfully posted the simplified example for your question, which already shows crucial pieces of how one would access the CTrack, CCurve and CKey for the node port. (@Dunhou I won't get tired showing our appreciation in playing an active role in our community! ). Namely, you're expected to use GetBaseListForNode to get the BaseList2D element that corresponds to the node you have. Additionally, NimbusBaseInterface.GetDescID can be used to get the DescID of the port. After you have this information, the process of interacting with animation data isn't any different. Your can check the animation examples in our repository: Cinema-4D-Python-API-Examples/scripts/04_3d_concepts/scene_elements /animation. The only thing I'd like to point out here is handling color data. Namely, CKey is designed to operate with float values, but Opacity channel works with color data. Hence, you need to create a separate CTrack for each color channel. You basically do this by pushing your DescID one level further to access the elements of your color data. Please find small example below (based on the code shared by @Dunhou): descLevelsRGB: list[c4d.DescLevel] = [ c4d.DescLevel(c4d.COLOR_R, c4d.DTYPE_REAL, 0), c4d.DescLevel(c4d.COLOR_G, c4d.DTYPE_REAL, 0), c4d.DescLevel(c4d.COLOR_B, c4d.DTYPE_REAL, 0) ] opacityValue: list[float] = [0.55, 0.66, 0.77] # example data to store in the keyframe ctime: c4d.BaseTime = c4d.BaseTime(doc.GetTime().GetFrame(doc.GetFps()), doc.GetFps()) for opacityChannelDescLevel, opacityChannelValue in zip(descLevelsRGB, opacityValue): # Get opacity channel DescID and push it to access color channel channelDescID: c4d.DescID = nimbusRef.GetDescID(opacityPort.GetPath()) channelDescID.PushId(opacityChannelDescLevel) track: c4d.CTrack = c4d.CTrack(opacityPortBL2D, channelDescID) opacityPortBL2D.InsertTrackSorted(track) curve: c4d.CCurve = track.GetCurve() key = c4d.CKey() track.FillKey(doc, opacityPortBL2D, key) # this is optional key.SetValue(curve, opacityChannelValue) key.SetTime(curve, ctime) curve.InsertKey(key) Cheers, Ilia

@i_mazlov I get it, thanks for your reply.

@Dunhou @i_mazlov Thanks a lot.

Hi @serco, there is multiple way to execute a script automatically when Cinema 4D is opened. Use python_init.py, this force you to add your script into the temp folder. Bu it can be done for a particular instance of a Cinema 4D or it can also be applied to all Cinema 4D versions that use a given python version. Implement a Plugin and react to PluginMessage various event are sent to Python, and you can hook into them to execute your code. This require to have a Python plugin loaded by Cinema 4D. Depending of your needs there is c4dpy which act as a Python Interpreter, where you can pass directly your Python file as an argument. Then again depending of your need you may be able to start what you want to do next. Cheers, Maxime.

I get it, thanks for your reply and keeping the idea. If there are any workarounds or alternative solutions in the meantime, please let me know. I look forward to any updates regarding this feature in the future. Cheers~

Hi @BretBays Happy Christmas ! Thanks for getting back, and indeed PLUGINFLAG_COMMAND_OPTION_DIALOG is the way to go. Find an example in CommandData with Options Dialog - Docked command button Cheers, Maxime.

Thanks a lot for reporting this kind of issue ! This is going to be fixed in the next update of the doc. Cheers, Maxime.

Hi thanks for the question, I've opened a bug report, for the moment the only workaround would be to remove the Morph and re-add it. For the moment the name in the treeview is only updated when manually edited from the treeview and on the insertion of the item in the tree view. Cheers, Maxime.